Pin Up Girls

Yeah, it is everyone's choice as a free woman.

I'm going to admit that I definitely strayed off the subject in this. The original point was that I was upset by the pin up girls being treated as heroines in the crafting world, overlooking some of the difficulties brought with it. I understand that in Burlesque, it helps give women confidence and make them feel liberated (which is brilliant) but really burlesque is mostly a female thing. Burlesque clubs are inhabited almost entirely by women, and the women go to private classes. I still think it's better to be able to feel liberated and confident just in yourself- without the props and stuff, and I guess I feel that the more pin up girls and stuff there are about, the harder it is for other people to have that without seeing things like that everywhere. I guess it's like a viscous circle!

I'd like to reiterate that pin up girls are definitely not the sole person to blame for women being treated as objects, i never meant that- i just realise how it must've come across when I strayed off the subject and began talking as things as a whole. I'm just very passionate about feminism, sexism makes me so angry I find myself crying about it a lot because I just feel so useless, even though there is SO much that needs to be done about it.

As Tara said earlier, "Well, sorry to say, as long as their are living breathing women around men (even if we all wore the ugliest clothes that showed no skin, wore no makeup, and cut off all of our hair) we would be honked at, googled at, and whistled at. Like or not, as women we are sexual objects, that's the way the world, is." A lot of people have this opinion, a lot of women are just "Yeah, it's horrible but it's life" it absolutely is not life. It should not be life. It's disgusting. We need to do something about it in order to stop it. I understand it looks impossible, I used to have the same defeatist attitude but I learnt that if we, as women, just have a little bravery and a little courage and a little self respect- we can sort it out.

I'm fucking sick of this! I can't seem to put together my opinion on this, I've always felt strongly about this sort of thing and I start typing and then loose my train of thought!

Corrie, how many pin-up girls do you know?
and obviously Roma didn't mean pin-up girls think about sex 24/7(duh)

I know 5 pinup girls. Thankyou very much. And only 1 thinks about sex 24/7. I'm not a pin up girl yet, and I already do! Good thing I am married!

That's good for you tara(I didn't ask you as I knew you probably did which would ahve given you more insight on the topic). I asked corrie because she said roma didn't know any and she herself probably didn't either so she shouldn't have been so rudely saying it.

okay, I'm done with this topic. off to make something.....

I'm with you I'm done with this topic myself.

I understand what you mean Roma, and why you say it, but you have to realize... when you said " if there was an equal amount of men doing that sort of thing as women, then I'd be fine with it"
That is slightly sexist in itself. I'm not calling you a sexist at all, but think about it.

You're saying If men did it, then women should be allowed to do it... But since men ARN'T doing it, women shouldn't either?

Yeah you have missed the point on that one, dis.

It's that if there was an equal balance then there'd be equal respect. It's got nothing to do with women only being allowed to do things men do.

that makes sense what Roma said because then it would be equal. That's one of the points she was trying to get across-equality among men and women.


P.S. Whoops! I was meant to be finished with this board but I couldn't help it!

I don't think that would change anything, there will always be this attitude towards women and men being different, it's like people can't get over the fact we have boobs. It's not just in the sex industry, look at female pop stars, boobs and legs. Even when it's a rock group with females, the girls are at the front of the pictures.

Then there's the idea that women will go off and have kids and be less commited or interested in their jobs. What I hate more then anything then the sex industry is magazines like heat and cosmo, women are reading them and being told what to think. Those magazines don't even make sense. I just block that kinda thing out, it's not worth getting annoyed about because it happens, I think it's human. Both sexes have their faults but if someone is sexist towards you, don't stand for it, and it will get us all somewhere

I think there's more a problem with people as a whole and people having no respect for other people rather then sex coming into it. I know I've gone off the subject a bit but I think there's a bigger picture here.

These pin ups are quite powerful women, I think even if they're being goggled out, they have quite a lot of power, I imagine they're very safe when they go to work, but there's always people who will take advantage so they can make a quick buck (and no I don't know any pin up girls but my mate did a pole dancing job once). They're still seen as meat just given a bit more respect, but not everyone thinks that way.

Roma, I know what you mean about getting so depressed because it feels like nothing can be done about sexism. I always get really upset when I just feel like everything I do is completely futile, mainly because I haven't got my head round the fact that I can't change the world by myself. No, really. I know it's different, but I always get so upset about how many people I know who have been, god, at least sexually abused, quite often more, and I have too and we all just have to get on with it and go "Okay well this just happens to people sometimes" but it's not fair, we shouldn't have to deal with it. It bothers me soo much

Ok, I'm well aware I can't change the world on my own and I was never under that impression. I think it'd be pretty awful if I did. I just don't think we should accept things like sexual harassment as being commonplace, and I think doing so is dangerous.

So..what do you do about it?

I have to disagree with Corrie. I'd rather just flash a smile. My man would rather me just smile, too. The stereotypes of what is considered sexy don't even cross my mind. I prefer my comfy panties to a thong, a plain bra rather than a lacy one, etc. I can't feel sexy based on what I'm wearing. I'm proud of my looks and body, sure, but I don't like to flaunt it. But I guess that's just me.

I've experienced sexism and sexual abuse firsthand, and it's hell. Simple as that. As long as women are seen as objects, that hell will still exist. As long as men and women alike continue to see one another as alien creatures, it will still exist. Men experience sexism, too. Women take for granted that they are the oppressed gender, when really, both sexes feel disenfranchised. Unfortunately, there is not one damn thing we can do about that.

When i did sociology in school we had to do a questionnaire based on the topics we learnt about. Mine was about sexism in the work place and all the men said they thought about sexism when they were being interviewed for a job, the women said they didn't think about it. On the sexyness thing: I feel sexy when I feel confident on the inside, it doesn't matter what I wear but sometimes nice clothes/underwear helps.

I don't think anyone excepts any form of abuse they just accept that it happens, even though of course it shouldnt. I think the only way to sort it out is write to someone of authority to change laws or report it if you feel you could do that and if nothing is done, grow strong from it and even if that shitbag doesn't know you're strong and better then they are then you do and the people around you do.

I don't agree with the sex industry, but people will always be people, I think as long as these girls are safe then that's something. I don't think these attitudes exsist because of the sex industry. Not everyone thinks in such a bad way about the opposite sex.