CO+K Swap-Bot Group

There is already a separate swap going on Facebook.I will keep posting and swapping here.It seems to have worked for 6 years.
I've been here for just over a year and until recently have had a good time.
I really hope this will come around.Cat and Tom work to support us in our crafting and this is to me still the aim of the site.
Having open lists of people who have not completed swap can be helpful for swap hosts.They can take into account who may need extra support to ensure a swap succeeds.
Different words have different meanings in areas of the world.The term flaker is very negative in my personal experience.As CO+K expands into other areas such as Facebook and other social networking sites I find it really difficult to see my name as suggesting someone is a flaker.We all have difficulties in completing things that we commit to for whatever reason.Some of the people I have had unsuccessful swaps with have been teenagers to have them given this status online seems very harsh.Others due to ill health have disappeared only to return months later.
I would encourage people to keep swapping on CO+K and just to keep the place positive and crafty.Give people a second chance and not be judgmental.
I hope this explain my personal position and that I won't feel the need to delete this post in a few hours.
@creative sorry to high jack.Loved my accidental swap and will work on a return.Sorry about the 5 swap misunderstanding.

Creative mind, I like your idea since Iam new to all of this and would like to learn more!
I absolutely will noy have a Facebook, the program is full of harmful viruses even with VP. so I am outta the "social networking" loop that way.
Deb~I think the term "flaker" is a bit brash but how do you weed out the uncommitted vs the committed? some of it may be left up to chance depending on your partner like you said, , I dont have a clue because I havent done any yet. it sounds very fun and positive regardless...

It's ok Deb, you don't have to send anything for that, it was my happy mistake. And the 5 swap thing, again that was something that was determined I think before you joined the site.

Being labeled has a flaker is harsh, just as harsh as not sticking to the agreement of a swap that one joins and leaving their partner disappointed. I understand that things come up, it happens. But when someone doesn't send out on a swap and then come back to join other swaps and continue to post on the boards and never mentions anything of the swap they neglected, then the title "flaker" is appropriate.

I don't know about how the swap is on FB, I only suggested swap-bot because it's more regulated and monitored as to who is capable of what. It's just easier to track swaps, who's sent out and who hasn't. As it seems that Dessah has had to start a monitoring of sorts for exactly that. This site is great, no doubt, but it's not set up to do do what we need to have done to continue to have fun swaps here without fearing that someone will renege on their obligation of joining swaps. We all know that Tom and Cat are doing a great job with CO+K, and it's got to be a lot of work, so it would be even more to put something into place to have swaps that we can join and not have that fear. Of course, if that were possible and they could handle it then great.

Again, all I was suggesting was that maybe there could be a place where we can still do swaps from CO+K and not have everyone besides Dessah try so hard to keep up with who's doing what (or not doing) and just concentrate with the fun mainly in doing swaps. It just seems to me, that the possibility of someone not sticking to a swap is more of a concern with having/joining them instead of just having fun like we used to.

Creative @ I think your last sentence sums it up for me-thanks for putting it so well.
Do you feel that swap hosts should take more of a role in supporting their swaps? We have very little info in what their role should be.
If the swap hosts role was to report back if swap was successful say to the end swap survey this would make things more compact. This would take away some of the keeping track as host would be doing this role and it would be completed on the swap thread.I know hosts go MIA too but this is usually picked up by the participants.
The Newbie swap has a new lead Dessah and as this is an ongoing swap will require a little adjustment to this idea and may be required but I'm sure this way she'll only be posting Newbies.
I actually think the Newbie swap is a separate issue.It's peoples first chance to experience swapping and if it's not for them then as long as there's communication then thats fine.
I do agree with your definition of "Flakers" who act as you describe.It's really hurtful.
Just ideas....

I agree...I was having fun too, but now I just feel bad! I don't like having to call people flakers. I really just wanted to help when starting the survey/guide topic. I love seeing all the positive entries! I wish I knew a better way of keeping up with all the good names!

Should we change the name "flaker" to something else? I'm trying to be as positive as possible with that thread. I don't want anyone to feel hurt...

I feel like I've started negativity in trying to make things happy!!! I don't know what to do! Should I just delete the whole thing? Also, Should someone else take over the Newbie swap?

Debs, I really hope you didn't think you had to delete a post on account of me. Maybe I don't express what I'm trying to say very well?

I'm so self conscious when it comes to stuff like this. I always feel like people are mad at me! My tummy is in knots right now! I never want to make a person feel bad, especially when they've offered me a suggestion. And I don't mean to upset a "flaker" either! I totally understand that things happen and swaps aren't always able to be met. I'm happy to take a name off the board if the "flaker" at least makes contact and tries to make things right and I've deleted the swaps that were amended. I came up with the permanent list because of one person's many, many "flakes". I don't know if I would still feel comfortable swapping with a person who "flaked" many times. Even if they were rectified.

Maybe the permanent list should be removed? I don't know.

As for Swap-Bot...I was considering that too. I just hate that you can't post pictures. I was kind of curious to see if Tom and Cat had any better plans for the swaps before moving. ???

PS. If I've offended anyone in any way, please let me know. I'm really sorry!

Ok, Debs. That makes sense with the Host rule. Ya'll just tell me what to do and I'll change the guide around however it needs to be. ;)

I've not been here long, so I can't offer much in the way of swap rules. I'v just been picking up off what other people have been saying. My biggest offer is the time I have to invest in keeping whatever we decide on current, and organized. I don't feel right trying to decide on any other important issues.

Again, ya'll just tell me what to say, and I'll do it. But it has to be agreed on by the majority of the "vets" or "people actively swapping". ;)

I don't have a FB so I would really love to keep the swap here on cok! but that pure personal value, so if it's better for you all you should go to FB....but I would really miss it here!!

for the flakers list, I think the idea is great... but the permanent list I find a little bit harsh. If someone puts allot of strain in makeing everything right, it not fair to stay on the list. And I think it not encouraging if you flaked to make it correct if you stay on the permanent list. just a thought...

I don't know. but I love swapping and I love this site. so I felt I needed to speak up.... aldo I'm just here since april this year for the swapping part. Sorry if I'am perky for blending in on this conversation!

and dessah I love everything you do on here. so don't feel bad!! it just we all have a different view in stuff like this. and speaking it out is what this site makes so great. there is room for it. we all put love, time and effort in it. we all make cok what it is!

I agree with you all have said, but I had the idea of swapping on swap-bot for awhile now, even before the Dessah started the thread to monitor swappers. So this is in no way a put down to you Dessah, I commend your efforts in trying to do something that will make swapping more fun. And I don't feel in anyway that you offended anybody, at least not to me. I just thought it would be easier if we tried something else, so that we can just have fun swapping without all of the work put into weeding out those who don't comply. Referring back to my last sentence in the previous post.

I was thinking though, if the idea does go into play, that we can have a thread here where we post our pix of what was sent and received. As far as seeing who didn't send and who did, that can be seen on the group on swap-bot.

Deb, I think the hosts of the swaps do a good job at doing whatever there is to be done to see that everyone has stuck with the rules of their swap. I know some do check back and sometimes posts who's sent, who hasn't, who's waiting and so on. The problem with swaps is the ones who don't comply. Trying not to say "flaker" though in retrospect if the title fits then they should be embarrassed. The way I see it, if you don't want to be put into that group of people who don't stick to an obligation, then either don't join swaps or just comply to the rules. That's like a repeat offender of a heinous crime, like thievery. If you don't want to be called a thief then don't steal. Besides, "flaker" is the only word I ever seen used anywhere. So why try and make somebody feel better by not calling them that, especially when they are guilty of the offense, when they aren't the ones disappointed, their partner is. And I'm not talking about the people who have legitimate reasons or who rectify their misgivings.

But back on topic, I didn't start this thread to bash those who don't comply, but to make it easier to swap and have fun doing it. That's what we have lost sight of. Swapping here used to be fun for me, but sad to say it's not so much anymore. I swap on swap-bot more than I do here now and I'm not pleased about that, but it's because of unreliable people.

Oh, and I'm not saying not having any swaps here period, just suggesting to those who want to try swap-bot. Man, I hope you ladies didn't think that was what meant. LOL!!

OK, I've taken off the permanent flaker list. In retrospect, maybe that was a little much.

Maybe I should change the list to "Incomplete Swaps" or something? I don't know! It's so complicated!

I do appreciate though, that so far no one has left mean surveys on the people who didn't follow through....so I guess that's a plus. ;) If people start bashing in the surveys I'll just delete the whole thing, cause I don't think that's what any of us have set out to do.

OK...I changed my mind. I went ahead and deleted the permanent list AND reworded the whole thing. Instead of "flaker" I've written "incomplete swap". I also changed the list from the big bold red letters. It doesn't look as harsh now, I think.

I re-read the guidelines and it does sound much nicer I think. It's still obvious that if you're on the list, you'd better contact your partner and make it right. However, it's not worded so rudely! ;)

For what it's worth, I don't think we should completely do away with the list. If we have to make it private and only swap hosts are allowed to message me for the names in order to confirm their pairs, then I can agree with that. However, being responsible and holding up your agreements/commitments is part of being a respectable human being. If you want your name off the list, it only takes a quick email. People who's partners work hard and put a lot of love into their craft are good hearted people (on average) and I'm about 97% sure that under most circumstances a simple email saying, "I'm really sorry I couldn't complete the swap" is sufficient enough for forgiveness. Besides, most of the time they'll have the person's Mailing address, so there really is no excuse for not contacting. ;)

Crap, I probably should have put all this on the survey board...I talk too much! I'm so sorry! I just get carried away!

Haha!! You say you talk to much, and maybe I do too, but I just think you're funny!

Dessah, you are so bright!
keeping the list for hostes, but not for everyone to see!
and it's really postive that we all stay nice even when someone let us down!

Hm... I definitely think the list needs to stay up--if you can't handle your name being on the list, then don't do something to deserve it!!

You could also make the list "Those who are unable to reliably swap at this time," or something, and then write "whyyy" after the name (incomplete swap, postal issues, illness, etc)... and I mean, you could totally even add ME to the list if it were called that, due to postal service issues. That way, people might not take it so personally. Or, a status on our profiles about whether or not we are reliable at that time for swapping.... idk. Call me out if it's a stupid idea, lol. ;)

Of course, I also see the issue with the upkeep of a list like this. Just something that came to mind right at this moment.